Agree that it is not a biblical concept. I was actually just writing about the Demon Slayer clique in the NAR this week and their concept of generational curses. I had not specifically heard the term Generational Healing, but when I saw your post go up about it, I was pretty sure there had to be a connection. I agree that Scripture is clear in its concept of personal accountability. Moreover, a born again believer is a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). So, even if there was such a thing as generational curses, they would clearly be broken when someone turns to Christ since he took the curse of sin upon Himself on the cross of Calvary (fulfilling Deuteronomy 21:23). Colossians 1:13 says that the born again believer has been delivered from the power of darkness and translated into Christ's kingdom (past tense). Those who belong to Christ are not under curse. However, if the Demon Slayers and others who persist in such nonsense were to tell people the truth, there would be no need to look to them for healing, exorcism, or whatever else they claim to be able to offer that makes their clique special and unique.
Interesting that Fr Carlos Martins also supports this notion (be interesting what our bishop, a former exorcist, would say):
"Exorcists refer to this type of inheritance as generational sin. It consists of the continuation of a sin’s adverse effects upon one’s descendants. The most well-known example is Original Sin. Though Adam committed it, each of his descendants inherits it (Gen. 3:14–19). Exorcists encounter families that exhibit generational patterns of dysfunction.
"While genetics and societal dynamics can produce repetitive behavior, Scripture suggests some dysfunctional repetitions have spiritual causes. [Cites personal experiences with exorcisms].
"Helping victims overcome generational sin is a regular part of an exorcist’s ministry.
"Other examples from Scripture abound. The carelessness of Noah’s son Ham led to the cursing of the entire nation of Canaan (Gen. 9:25). The final plague meted out by God in Egypt consisted of mass death inflicted on every Egyptian’s firstborn for the sin that Pharaoh had done (Exod. 11:1–12:36). The story of David’s adultery with Bathsheba is perhaps the most detailed scriptural example of a generational curse. David tried to cover his sin by murdering Uriah, which brought immense misfortune upon David and his descendants (2 Sam. 10:7–14). A further instance involving David occurred when Satan incited him to take Israel’s census (1 Chron. 21:1). For this choice, God forced David to choose a punishment to inflict on the nation. The least harmful to him seemed pestilence, and seventy thousand were struck dead (1 Chron. 21:14)."
I wonder if it's an Old Testament notion abrogated in the new dispensation.
How does Martins interpret Romans Chapter 5, which makes it clear that grace through Jesus Christ's Atonement trumps the inherited sin handed down from Adam? Paul summarizes his argument in verses 17 and 18, where he says:
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
I assume he would say, yes, the Atonement trumps inherited sin, but it doesn't cure the *effects* of ancestral sin. Martins seems to make a distinction between personal sin one is personally responsible for and sin that causes lingering effects which cross generations. I checked a 100+ y/o catechism and found nothing on it, which supports the Spanish bishops and Fr B as far as this generational thing being a new teaching of our generation.
Thank you for your reply. I am convinced that these ideas are a direct result of the hyper-Charismatic infiltration into the Catholic Church by New Apostolic Reformation types who have also introduced these same ideas into Protestant Evangelical Churches. I've been doing a deep dive into the NAR for my new, about to be released book. There is an elite subculture in the NAR that call themselves Demon Slayers who especially push the idea of generational curses and teach that born again Christians need to have demons exorcised from them--even repeatedly. If they were to teach biblically, there would be no good reason to extort money from believers for fake exorcisms. The trouble with the church today is that discipleship, theology and Bible study are being neglected so that believers' discernment is not being honed to detect deception. However, this is precisely what the Bible predicts as the Church Age comes to a close and why there are so many warnings about the need to test the spirits and to contend earnestly for the faith.
Do you believe in anything like curses at all? Or effects of sin that are social and not strictly individual or do you believe such concepts are addressed in points made above?
It seems to me that there is something like curse and interpersonal effects of sin, but obviously I cannot pass on the guilt incurred by my sins to my children. What resources do you recommend for interpreting old testament passages that seem to endorse, not generational sin, but something like curses and interpersonal effects of sin?
Have to say that I have never considered whether a curse might be an object of faith. It matters more whether one believes in the redefinition of blessing contained in the teachings of the Lord Jesus.
Seems quite a thing in pop Catholic culture. Just today saw where Rod Dreher in his new book "Living in Wonder" cited an example of a woman possessed by devil which they had traced back to her deceased who'd been involved in the occult & placed a curse on her.
I haven't read any of the aforementioned books, but I can speak from a common sense perspective and experience that sin or dysfunction of those closest to us perpetuates and affects each generation. Sociologist's speak of trends based on environmental criteria. Looking specifically at divorce, the children of divorce have a much higher incidence of negative (sinful) behavior. I could give the litany of behaviors but will refrain here. What is needed in my opinion is study and clarification. I don't see the harm in people wanting to pray for ancestors; especially those who were known sinners. People who are living in this "vale of tears" are looking for help.
Our baptism has enormous power, however it does not negate the harmful behaviors that become a part of each person. It gives grace to overcome, but why have confession, the Eucharist, exorcism if baptism is enough. I think it's healthy and helpful to understand those sinful consequences that affect us.
Study: National Longitudinal Survey of Youth (NLSY) found that children of divorced parents report higher levels of emotional distress and lower self-esteem, especially when divorce occurs in early childhood.
Attachment Theory: Disruptions in family structure weaken children’s attachment to caregivers, contributing to emotional instability.
2. Academic Difficulties
Issues: Lower academic achievement, lower test scores, higher dropout rates.
Study: Amato (2001) reviewed studies and found that children of divorced parents tend to score lower academically and are more likely to drop out of school.
Disruption of Environment: Divorce may lead to changes in schools or living conditions, which can negatively impact academic performance.
3. Behavioral Problems
Issues: Increased risk of aggression, delinquency, substance abuse, conduct disorders.
Study: A Developmental Psychology study (1996) showed that children of divorced parents engage in more delinquent behavior than peers from intact families.
Modeling Behavior: Exposure to conflict or parental alienation can lead to children modeling inappropriate behaviors.
4. Social Adjustment and Relationship Issues
Issues: Difficulty with peer relationships, social isolation, problems forming future romantic relationships, trust issues.
Study: Kelly and Emery (2003) found that children of divorce are more likely to struggle with social relationships and exhibit issues with trust and attachment in adulthood.
Social Learning Theory: Children learn relationship patterns from their parents. Exposure to unhealthy relationships may influence their future interactions.
5. Long-Term Effects
Issues: Increased risk of depression, anxiety, lower well-being, marital problems, and higher rates of divorce in adulthood.
Study: Amato and Keith (1991) found that adults who experienced parental divorce reported higher levels of depression and lower well-being. They were also more likely to experience marital difficulties and divorce themselves.
Intergenerational Transmission: Children of divorced parents are more likely to have negative views on marriage and may be at a higher risk of divorce in their own relationships.
6. Impact on Gender Development
Issues: Boys may have more behavioral problems; girls may experience more emotional issues.
Study: Research by Hetherington (2003) suggested that boys from divorced families may exhibit more externalizing behaviors (e.g., aggression), while girls may internalize their problems, leading to anxiety and depression.
7. Financial Strain and Socioeconomic Impact
Issues: Financial stress, lower standard of living, lack of resources for the child.
Study: Studies indicate that divorce often leads to a decrease in household income and may increase the likelihood of children living in poverty, leading to added stressors that can affect emotional and academic outcomes.
8. Parental Alienation
Issues: Estrangement from one parent, emotional manipulation, loyalty conflicts.
Study: Research has shown that when one parent alienates the child from the other (often through negative comments or undermining the relationship), it can have serious long-term emotional effects on the child’s well-being, trust, and attachment.
9. Adjustment to New Family Dynamics
Issues: Difficulty adjusting to new family structures (e.g., stepparents, new siblings).
Study: Research by Amato (2000) found that children often experience stress and difficulty when adapting to new family members after the divorce, especially if there are changes in custody arrangements or if stepparents are involved.
These studies reflect a range of psychological, academic, and behavioral challenges faced by children of divorce, but they also underscore the importance of mitigating factors like parental involvement and reducing conflict post-divorce.
Issues, academic difficulties, and behavioral problems are not ipso facto sins. You mentioned sinful behavior, which is different. Steve, you said that you were not familiar with the books etc. that discuss "generational healing." If you take a look at them, you will see that what they are talking about is not the same as what you are talking about. No one denies that our family of origin has enormous influence over our lives. That's not what is at issue here. The bishops of Spain, France, and Poland are not denying that problems in one's family of origin can complicate one's life.
Agree that it is not a biblical concept. I was actually just writing about the Demon Slayer clique in the NAR this week and their concept of generational curses. I had not specifically heard the term Generational Healing, but when I saw your post go up about it, I was pretty sure there had to be a connection. I agree that Scripture is clear in its concept of personal accountability. Moreover, a born again believer is a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). So, even if there was such a thing as generational curses, they would clearly be broken when someone turns to Christ since he took the curse of sin upon Himself on the cross of Calvary (fulfilling Deuteronomy 21:23). Colossians 1:13 says that the born again believer has been delivered from the power of darkness and translated into Christ's kingdom (past tense). Those who belong to Christ are not under curse. However, if the Demon Slayers and others who persist in such nonsense were to tell people the truth, there would be no need to look to them for healing, exorcism, or whatever else they claim to be able to offer that makes their clique special and unique.
Interesting that Fr Carlos Martins also supports this notion (be interesting what our bishop, a former exorcist, would say):
"Exorcists refer to this type of inheritance as generational sin. It consists of the continuation of a sin’s adverse effects upon one’s descendants. The most well-known example is Original Sin. Though Adam committed it, each of his descendants inherits it (Gen. 3:14–19). Exorcists encounter families that exhibit generational patterns of dysfunction.
"While genetics and societal dynamics can produce repetitive behavior, Scripture suggests some dysfunctional repetitions have spiritual causes. [Cites personal experiences with exorcisms].
"Helping victims overcome generational sin is a regular part of an exorcist’s ministry.
"Other examples from Scripture abound. The carelessness of Noah’s son Ham led to the cursing of the entire nation of Canaan (Gen. 9:25). The final plague meted out by God in Egypt consisted of mass death inflicted on every Egyptian’s firstborn for the sin that Pharaoh had done (Exod. 11:1–12:36). The story of David’s adultery with Bathsheba is perhaps the most detailed scriptural example of a generational curse. David tried to cover his sin by murdering Uriah, which brought immense misfortune upon David and his descendants (2 Sam. 10:7–14). A further instance involving David occurred when Satan incited him to take Israel’s census (1 Chron. 21:1). For this choice, God forced David to choose a punishment to inflict on the nation. The least harmful to him seemed pestilence, and seventy thousand were struck dead (1 Chron. 21:14)."
I wonder if it's an Old Testament notion abrogated in the new dispensation.
In your comment, are all texts within quotation marks from Fr. Martins?
Yes everything in quotes is from him (in his new book). I've updated where I was missing a quotation mark.
In fact everything is him except the first and last lines, which are me.
How does Martins interpret Romans Chapter 5, which makes it clear that grace through Jesus Christ's Atonement trumps the inherited sin handed down from Adam? Paul summarizes his argument in verses 17 and 18, where he says:
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
I assume he would say, yes, the Atonement trumps inherited sin, but it doesn't cure the *effects* of ancestral sin. Martins seems to make a distinction between personal sin one is personally responsible for and sin that causes lingering effects which cross generations. I checked a 100+ y/o catechism and found nothing on it, which supports the Spanish bishops and Fr B as far as this generational thing being a new teaching of our generation.
Thank you for your reply. I am convinced that these ideas are a direct result of the hyper-Charismatic infiltration into the Catholic Church by New Apostolic Reformation types who have also introduced these same ideas into Protestant Evangelical Churches. I've been doing a deep dive into the NAR for my new, about to be released book. There is an elite subculture in the NAR that call themselves Demon Slayers who especially push the idea of generational curses and teach that born again Christians need to have demons exorcised from them--even repeatedly. If they were to teach biblically, there would be no good reason to extort money from believers for fake exorcisms. The trouble with the church today is that discipleship, theology and Bible study are being neglected so that believers' discernment is not being honed to detect deception. However, this is precisely what the Bible predicts as the Church Age comes to a close and why there are so many warnings about the need to test the spirits and to contend earnestly for the faith.
Do you believe in anything like curses at all? Or effects of sin that are social and not strictly individual or do you believe such concepts are addressed in points made above?
It seems to me that there is something like curse and interpersonal effects of sin, but obviously I cannot pass on the guilt incurred by my sins to my children. What resources do you recommend for interpreting old testament passages that seem to endorse, not generational sin, but something like curses and interpersonal effects of sin?
I love all the parts of this serious. Keep it up.
Have to say that I have never considered whether a curse might be an object of faith. It matters more whether one believes in the redefinition of blessing contained in the teachings of the Lord Jesus.
Seems quite a thing in pop Catholic culture. Just today saw where Rod Dreher in his new book "Living in Wonder" cited an example of a woman possessed by devil which they had traced back to her deceased who'd been involved in the occult & placed a curse on her.
I haven't read any of the aforementioned books, but I can speak from a common sense perspective and experience that sin or dysfunction of those closest to us perpetuates and affects each generation. Sociologist's speak of trends based on environmental criteria. Looking specifically at divorce, the children of divorce have a much higher incidence of negative (sinful) behavior. I could give the litany of behaviors but will refrain here. What is needed in my opinion is study and clarification. I don't see the harm in people wanting to pray for ancestors; especially those who were known sinners. People who are living in this "vale of tears" are looking for help.
Our baptism has enormous power, however it does not negate the harmful behaviors that become a part of each person. It gives grace to overcome, but why have confession, the Eucharist, exorcism if baptism is enough. I think it's healthy and helpful to understand those sinful consequences that affect us.
What is the evidence behind the assertion that children of divorce have a higher percentage of sinful behavior? Higher percentage than whom?
Higher percentage than non-divorced.
Here are some secular studies:
. Emotional and Psychological Problems
Issues: Anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, emotional distress.
Study: National Longitudinal Survey of Youth (NLSY) found that children of divorced parents report higher levels of emotional distress and lower self-esteem, especially when divorce occurs in early childhood.
Attachment Theory: Disruptions in family structure weaken children’s attachment to caregivers, contributing to emotional instability.
2. Academic Difficulties
Issues: Lower academic achievement, lower test scores, higher dropout rates.
Study: Amato (2001) reviewed studies and found that children of divorced parents tend to score lower academically and are more likely to drop out of school.
Disruption of Environment: Divorce may lead to changes in schools or living conditions, which can negatively impact academic performance.
3. Behavioral Problems
Issues: Increased risk of aggression, delinquency, substance abuse, conduct disorders.
Study: A Developmental Psychology study (1996) showed that children of divorced parents engage in more delinquent behavior than peers from intact families.
Modeling Behavior: Exposure to conflict or parental alienation can lead to children modeling inappropriate behaviors.
4. Social Adjustment and Relationship Issues
Issues: Difficulty with peer relationships, social isolation, problems forming future romantic relationships, trust issues.
Study: Kelly and Emery (2003) found that children of divorce are more likely to struggle with social relationships and exhibit issues with trust and attachment in adulthood.
Social Learning Theory: Children learn relationship patterns from their parents. Exposure to unhealthy relationships may influence their future interactions.
5. Long-Term Effects
Issues: Increased risk of depression, anxiety, lower well-being, marital problems, and higher rates of divorce in adulthood.
Study: Amato and Keith (1991) found that adults who experienced parental divorce reported higher levels of depression and lower well-being. They were also more likely to experience marital difficulties and divorce themselves.
Intergenerational Transmission: Children of divorced parents are more likely to have negative views on marriage and may be at a higher risk of divorce in their own relationships.
6. Impact on Gender Development
Issues: Boys may have more behavioral problems; girls may experience more emotional issues.
Study: Research by Hetherington (2003) suggested that boys from divorced families may exhibit more externalizing behaviors (e.g., aggression), while girls may internalize their problems, leading to anxiety and depression.
7. Financial Strain and Socioeconomic Impact
Issues: Financial stress, lower standard of living, lack of resources for the child.
Study: Studies indicate that divorce often leads to a decrease in household income and may increase the likelihood of children living in poverty, leading to added stressors that can affect emotional and academic outcomes.
8. Parental Alienation
Issues: Estrangement from one parent, emotional manipulation, loyalty conflicts.
Study: Research has shown that when one parent alienates the child from the other (often through negative comments or undermining the relationship), it can have serious long-term emotional effects on the child’s well-being, trust, and attachment.
9. Adjustment to New Family Dynamics
Issues: Difficulty adjusting to new family structures (e.g., stepparents, new siblings).
Study: Research by Amato (2000) found that children often experience stress and difficulty when adapting to new family members after the divorce, especially if there are changes in custody arrangements or if stepparents are involved.
These studies reflect a range of psychological, academic, and behavioral challenges faced by children of divorce, but they also underscore the importance of mitigating factors like parental involvement and reducing conflict post-divorce.
Issues, academic difficulties, and behavioral problems are not ipso facto sins. You mentioned sinful behavior, which is different. Steve, you said that you were not familiar with the books etc. that discuss "generational healing." If you take a look at them, you will see that what they are talking about is not the same as what you are talking about. No one denies that our family of origin has enormous influence over our lives. That's not what is at issue here. The bishops of Spain, France, and Poland are not denying that problems in one's family of origin can complicate one's life.